A Faulty Investigation

Gary Meyers Interviewed by Detective Hatch and Detective Jones 

Hatch: We've had kids who stated that they saw you and that you're involved, OK?

Jones: We want to go through this with you. Don't deny it yet.  If you question twelve kids, you'll get 12 different answers.  Take Arnie Friedman's own words.  But he admitted this.

Gary: I didn't see it.  I didn't hear it.

Jones: Arnold was under no obligation to admit, but he did.  Why would Arnold Friedman admit to something that wasn't true.  The kids know that he did it.  Take Arnold's own words... I know it's impossible to speak to him now but he's openly admitted to this in an open courtroom.  He said "I did it."

                 [Ann Meyers enters room and she is asked to leave]

Hatch:J. B. and M. E. both say that they saw Gary engaged in it... Arnold Friedman did not have to admit this.  No one put him in a dark room.  He said it in open court with an attorney.  He sodomized them.  What I say to you as an intelligent human being is what did you say to that.  He admitted he sodomized a lot of children

Gary: inaudible

Hatch: Arnold Friedman says in a courtroom in front of a judge... I'm not going to tell you, you tell us.  What we're trying to determine is... Arnold Friedman in court says that he sodomized children ... The judge said that there are other children and exactly what he did.

                 [Inaudible discussion]

Hatch: We are trying to find out who the other victims are to help the parents and those children.  Arnold Friedman will not be charged with any other additional charges.  There's no axe to grind here.  There's no axe to grind here.  It was all stipulated in open court that there would be no further charges.  One judge and the DA says no further charges will be made.  Once the stipulation was made with the judge, no further charges will be made.  What we want to do is to let the parents know if there are other children that we aren't aware of so that they can get psychological help for the children.  We also learn how to deal with pedophiles and how they operate, how they operate and their method of seduction... Not one child came forward.  Why?  They were blackmailed.  Sexual perversions if a person is sexually abused and wanted to keep your mouth shut and took photos and took notes and told you if you said anything to anyone you would be in worse trouble because they would show the picture -‑ what if the person was seven or eight years old... Could you imagine a copy to our mother, a copy to a smut magazine with the name and address to show that you were a pervert?

Gary: inaudible

Hatch: Did you know that much five years ago?  I'm 43 years old and when I was seven I didn't know as much as I do now.

Gary: inaudible

Hatch: [angrily] I think you're very funny... No evidence to speculate anything happened... You're reasonably intelligent I wouldn't say you're a genius but you are reasonably intelligent.  Arnold Friedman stipulated in court that he sodomized a large number of children.

Gary: No he never touched me.

Hatch: Oh, it happened to everyone else but not to you.  How many sessions did you have at Friedman's.

Gary: 8 to 12.

Hatch: Arnold Friedman had a certain age group.  Pre‑adolescent males.  He wouldn't be interested in a guy like you?  You were nine years old and nothing happened?  An eight year old, you don't know as much as you do at 13 years old.  I'm saying to you, you went through a physical change.  You look different at 13 than you did at 8.  Because of that difference, Arnold Friedman no longer wanted you. Pedophiles are very selective.  Like heterosexuals.  Some like blondes some like brunettes.  Arnold Friedman liked eight-year-olds.  You'll find out as you get older that certain things are true, certain things are lies. You denying this doesn't mean it didn't happen.  Arnold Friedman admitted it and it's true.  When young, impressionable children are running around....

Gary: inaudible question

Jones: Why don't you ask your sister if something happened?  A lot of boys seem to have concerns about their own sexuality.

                             [Inaudible conversation between Meyers and Jones]

Hatch: What about a homosexual act over a period of years?  Formative years?  Would you consider that having an affect on a person's sexuality?  Do you think that determines if you are a homosexual?  If a person was involved in a homosexual act during preadolescent years after they are forced out of it do you think they would like it?  What about a man who takes unfair advantage of children?  If you are going to be a homosexual, you'll be a homosexual.

Gary: inaudible

Hatch: Well guess what?  You are absolutely wrong.  Most children who abuse children have been abused themselves.  It's a monster created with in you. This little monster inside you.  This little voice and every now and then it rears its ugly head.  Unless the victim knows enough about the problem to get himself straightened out.  If suppressed, it's a two‑fold problem.  One is anger and frustration.  And the other is acting itself out.  It's a no‑win situation unless the person goes and gets help and admits that he was victimized. If something bad happens even though its not the kid's fault the child blames himself and feels tremendous guilt.  We find, with help that they can see it's not their fault.  And then the place the blame on the person who created the situation and then they are a lot better off.  Don't over intimidate women.  Don't over intimidate women.  You're a super‑smart intelligent individual.  You'd have to be an idiot not to see this.  To a child, you don't need a knife, guy or machete. The seduction in force can be very subtle.  If Arnold Friedman took a small boy and put a very big guy over him, what do you think the little guy will do?  There are children who would defy but a very small percentage.  90% would submit.  Most kids would be intimidated.  If a pedophile wants to get his goal accomplished, I'll have 10 or 12 kids in my class.  I know the kids.  I know those who I can intimidate and those I cannot.  And I'll cut out those that I can't intimidate.  Then I go to the next stage in the process and I might cut out even a few more.  You might go so far, and then that's that.  If you don't want to do something you won't.  That's another stage.  It's a process of elimination and psychology plays a big part. And then there are other methods other than intimidation.  There's carrots and rewards.  You are having so much fun and you're getting rewards.  If you do something right, you get a reward.  A candy bar, a pat on the back.

Do you remember games of a sexual nature? Stroker? Strip Poker? [checks notes] Exploding fists?

Gary: Exploding fists was a Karate Game.

Hatch: Did you ever see any porn magazines?

Gary: No

Hatch: Did you ever go to any other room in the house?

Gary: Yes. 

Hatch: What room?

Gary: Jesse's bedroom to play with the Commodore computer and nothing happened.

Hatch: Did Jesse help with the classes?

Gary: no answer

Hatch: Did Gary Meyers ever take a special SAT class?  Who was in the class?  Gary, A. G., J. B., H. S., M. D.?

Hatch: Did you ever see a magazine called Gallery Magazine?

Gary: No

Hatch: [calls Ann Meyers back into the room] Gary was a wise guy and I didn’t like his answer.